Bishop T.D. Jakes and I have been talking about money and faith for a long time. This week we let you into the conversation.

The theme is a phrase I have been saying everywhere lately: make boring sexy. Discipline. Humility. Education. Showing up. Paying your bills on time. The things nobody posts about and everybody who actually builds wealth does. In an age of hype and instant gratification, Bishop Jakes and I make the case that the boring stuff is the whole game.

We also go somewhere deeper. What ministry has to do with money. Why the Black church has always been an economic institution, whether it admits it or not. How faith keeps you steady when the market, or your life, does not cooperate. And what Bishop has learned building an organization that touches millions of people around the world.

Seventy minutes with one of the great voices of our time. Pull up a chair.

🎧 Listen now — wherever you get your podcasts, or simply click below.

▶️ Prefer to watch? The full conversation is on my YouTube channel.